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Author Topic: How to restore PPU support with latest Nvidia Drivers  (Read 197965 times)
Azrael5
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« Reply #30 on: May 05, 2012, 01:21:32 PM »

Rough calculation of the bandwidth for the Ageia in typical game scenario:

1./ Map, or environment, is preloaded at start of map. Maybe a few 100K of data, maybe a few MB. One off upload.

2./ Physx doing the calculations for 10,000 objects in "realtime"

3./ Each object has an x, y, z, and movement and acceleration vectors, and some ID fields

4./ Bits of data for each object "within" the PPU, is (3 + 3 + 3) x 32 bits for single precision float, or 64 bits for double precision, and some ID and "status" fields. Lets take double precision, then thats 9 x 64 bits + ID + status fields, so maybe upto 1024 bits of data for each object = 128 bytes. So the 10,000 objects need only 1280K (just over 1MB) for variable space.

5./ What data is sent OUT every frame to the GPU (or in-game rendering engine before going to the GPU)? That will only require the x,y,z coordinates single float (32-bit) and some basic ID fields, say 32-bit = 4x32=128 bit

6./ 10,000 objects x 128bit = 160,000 bytes per frame

7./ At 100fps that would be 16,000,000 bytes per second, or approx 16MB/s

So yes, when you are talking about MORE THAN 10,000 objects, you are beginning to take a chunk out of the PCI channel. Unless, of course, your software is smart enough to know WHICH objects you are looking at, and therefore you dont need to send ALL the environment object data. Relatively simple FOV calculations could reduce the outputted object count by a factor between 4-16 (90 degress FOV left to right and top to bottom) hence 10,000 objects require bandwidth of between 1-4MB/sec.

CONCLUSION:

PCI Soundcard + PCI Network card + PCI PPU = no problem.
[/QUOTE]


that's a verification a users made to show the ppu processor capabilities, if they would be used.
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Zogrim
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« Reply #31 on: May 05, 2012, 02:53:18 PM »

verification a users made to show the ppu processor capabilities
I believe it is related to a dispute about PCI interface - was it bottleneck for Ageia PPU or not.

Also, calculations may be completely wrong, since data stream between CPU and PPU not only includes "Each object has an x, y, z, and movement and acceleration vectors, and some ID fields", but also a lots of other stuff - sweep and raycasts tests, callbacks, broadphase structures, dynamic and static collision geometry and who knows what else..

Fact is - PPU was barely able to handle latest PhysX games, like Stoked Rider (20 000 particles - lag), GRAW 2 (some levels were crawling at 15-20 fps), UT3 levels (destruction = lag), Warmonger (fine when you are alone on level, by try to play in multiplayer - lag !)

Whatever the "processor capabilities" were, they were not enough and we're all waiting for PPU 2 at the time
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Azrael5
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« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2012, 02:32:28 PM »

verification a users made to show the ppu processor capabilities
I believe it is related to a dispute about PCI interface - was it bottleneck for Ageia PPU or not.

Also, calculations may be completely wrong, since data stream between CPU and PPU not only includes "Each object has an x, y, z, and movement and acceleration vectors, and some ID fields", but also a lots of other stuff - sweep and raycasts tests, callbacks, broadphase structures, dynamic and static collision geometry and who knows what else..

Fact is - PPU was barely able to handle latest PhysX games, like Stoked Rider (20 000 particles - lag), GRAW 2 (some levels were crawling at 15-20 fps), UT3 levels (destruction = lag), Warmonger (fine when you are alone on level, by try to play in multiplayer - lag !)


Whatever the "processor capabilities" were, they were not enough and we're all waiting for PPU 2 at the time

so how to get a reliable answer to our conjectures? Are there plans to make new and more powerfull PPU cards able to manage every kind of phisic engine as havok, physx, euphoria,...?
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mohawkade
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« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2012, 08:39:18 AM »

Incredibly doubtful, as there may be a lot of bureaucratic red tape and business complications (software patents, and whatever else) to develop and market such a product. Although Nvidia (owner of PhysX) and Intel (owner of Havok) have collaborated in a few product related products before (hardware mostly), they are competitors in the "physics engine" market and may never collaborate on developing a universal hardware for both engines.

Euphoria, however, applies more toward the actions and reactions of "living" AI characters and is not a physics engine in itself. Though, it can be plugged in to work with any physics engine.
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Audio: X-Fi Fatal1ty Champion Sound Card
PPU: BFG Ageia PhysX Card
moru
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« Reply #34 on: June 09, 2012, 09:50:44 AM »

Hello all and glad to meet you! This is my first post on this forum. I have to excuse my bad grammar, english it's not my primary language.

I have recently buyed an Ageia Physx PPU just for some fun but it seems that i've got what i asked for Smiley.
The card is a DELL branded, PCI-Express 1x model with 128MB DDR3, molex power connector.

I've tryed to follow the steps described in the first post, but, when i try to install Ageia Physx system driver, the system hangs.
I have tryed the card on other computer and the driver installs flawless (still old but with i945 chipset).

My computer it's an old Fujitsu Scenic W620 with the following config: P4 670 - 3.80 GHz / 4GB DDR2 / GT430  and i915G chipset of course.
I've tryed to take out all pci cards, video card, and even reinstall the operating sis. but nothing changed.
I don't have any ideea what to do. A bios update ? Bios settings? Any help in my problem will be apreciated.
Thank's in advance, moru.
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« Reply #35 on: June 09, 2012, 01:02:51 PM »

moru
Try to install Ageia driver with "/quiet" key
http://physxinfo.com/wiki/File:PhysX_quiet_png.png
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moru
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« Reply #36 on: June 09, 2012, 03:48:58 PM »

Tryedm, still doesn't work. The PC locks up when it's time to install driver i think. Even if I install the driver manually (device manager), the pc freezes when copy a file with .sys. (physx.sys or something).

I think it's a hardware incompatibility with my MB. Cry

Later edit:
Another thing i've found. I have pressed TAB and pause to view bios post screen without the "fascinating" fujitsu picture. When Ageia it's installed on the PCI X slot the mobo gives me two errors like this:
 PCI System error on bus/device/function 00E1h
 PCI System error on bus/device/function 0500h
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Bourne2008
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« Reply #37 on: June 26, 2012, 12:08:57 PM »

@moru: Have you already tryed to update the bios? If its a hardware-incompatibility problem this could solve it. I recommend to remove the PPU before updating.
Afterwards, tell us which pci-x settings you can change in the bios.
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moru
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« Reply #38 on: July 05, 2012, 11:00:57 AM »

Unfortunately can't find a newer BIOS update for Fujitsu D1837 mainboard. I have searched the Fujitsu support page and i have found that the latest BIOS is allready  installed (5.00.1.11).

In BIOS i have the IRQ changing options and two other settings ( i can't remember right now, i can tell you when i'm in front of PC).
I tryed to change those two options and whatever the settings were, still no solve for my issue.

I'll come back later with some shots of bios settings and maybe a video of problem behaviour.  Thx
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Azrael5
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« Reply #39 on: July 11, 2012, 03:09:45 PM »

Unfortunately can't find a newer BIOS update for Fujitsu D1837 mainboard. I have searched the Fujitsu support page and i have found that the latest BIOS is allready  installed (5.00.1.11).

In BIOS i have the IRQ changing options and two other settings ( i can't remember right now, i can tell you when i'm in front of PC).
I tryed to change those two options and whatever the settings were, still no solve for my issue.

I'll come back later with some shots of bios settings and maybe a video of problem behaviour.  Thx

I think about peripherals conflict: try to disable on bios all devices ports you don't use. Try also to change pci-express 1.0 slot plugging PPU card into the other one.
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mohawkade
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« Reply #40 on: July 23, 2012, 08:46:31 AM »

UPDATE! Just finished and uploaded the Video Tutorial of this!
You can check it out at the following link below...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBdUToGiqIw
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HD: Intel 80GB Solid State Drive (OS)
      1TB Hard Drive (Game Drive)
CPU: AMD Phenom II X6, 3.2GHz
RAM: 8GB, DDR3-1600
GPU: Nvidia Geforce GTX 470 x2 SLI
Audio: X-Fi Fatal1ty Champion Sound Card
PPU: BFG Ageia PhysX Card
enoch0o
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« Reply #41 on: October 18, 2012, 12:27:16 AM »

Hi guys, sorry to resurrect this old thread but, I wanted to add the only other step I had to do to get physx working since, I use an ATI card  Grin

Download this nvcuda.dll from 177.79 nvidia driver and place it in your windows system32 or syswow64 ,depending which OS you have.
http://www.geeks3d.com/wp-content/plugins/download-monitor/download.php?id=13

Now fluidmark works and even gpu-z reports physx is checked.  Wink
Most importantly, Mirror's Edge works now with hardware acceleration and before it wouldn't even run (I also had to delete the physxloader.dll in the game folder.)

Another game that wouldn't run before was Dragon's Age:Origins and it's only cpu physx game Huh

Thanks again to mohawkade for the guides and giving me something to do!!I will definitely be getting an nvidia card to try hybrid physx soon.I only have one open pcie 1x slot and 1 monitor,though.lol But,that's another matter.
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mohawkade
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« Reply #42 on: October 18, 2012, 08:16:45 AM »

Well this isn't Toms Hardware, so we don't mind resurrecting old threads with questions or relevant info as much. (Seriously! That community is really snobby.)

Secondly, that is a good point, I never though to include differences between Nvidia users and ATI users. I'll be sure to update as soon as I get a chance!

Thanks for pointing that out!
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OP: Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit
HD: Intel 80GB Solid State Drive (OS)
      1TB Hard Drive (Game Drive)
CPU: AMD Phenom II X6, 3.2GHz
RAM: 8GB, DDR3-1600
GPU: Nvidia Geforce GTX 470 x2 SLI
Audio: X-Fi Fatal1ty Champion Sound Card
PPU: BFG Ageia PhysX Card
Zogrim
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« Reply #43 on: October 18, 2012, 10:01:54 AM »

Quote
Well this isn't Toms Hardware, so we don't mind resurrecting old threads with questions or relevant info as much
Exactly  Smiley

Thanks for info, enoch0o
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enoch0o
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« Reply #44 on: October 19, 2012, 12:41:53 AM »

No problem, guys.Glad to help. Wink I wonder if there's any other suggestions you could add for ATI users with these old cards?Maybe some small details regarding Nvidia disabling Physx when no Nvidia GPU is present.

I realize this is just about obsolete since true Physx is done with Nvidia GPU's, nowadays.I decided to try out Physx with a DELL W056C PPU I got for $8 just for fun, mostly.I'm glad to have it functioning now though, it seems the performance is lower than I expected it would be in Mirror's Edge.

It also seems like some software Physx games are running slightly smoother since getting the drivers to work but, it's such small difference it might just be placebo.  Huh

Thanks again!!



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